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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 429 for the 8th of

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January 2017 Richardson is here with you

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back in Sydney Australia muggy hot warm

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humid cloudy looking out the window

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Sydney Australia nice to be back in

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Australia nice to see Henrietta and more

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the skeptic zone cats as soon as I

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walked in the door they looked at me and

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said time for food yes they haven't

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changed a bit thank you to the wonderful

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people I saw in the United States on my

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recent trip thank you to the people who

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helped put together my my talks over

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there wow what a great time I had I

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really enjoyed that very much and a big

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thank you to the Dunning family who

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looked after me so well in Southern

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California and in fact later on in this

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episode you'll be hearing from

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up-and-coming young geologist Andrew

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Dunning as he and I explore the La Brea

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Tar Pits yeah fantastic area in Los

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Angeles the brea tar pits and the

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associated museum wow what a magical

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place it is who would have ever thought

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that uh could be interesting it is

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because of all the remains of long

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extinct animals they do get out of these

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Tar Pits find out more later on in the

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show and also included in that report is

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a visit to the space shuttle Endeavour

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which is also on display in Los Angeles

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links to those places in the show notes

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but what an interesting day I had

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exploring the science on offer in Los

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Angeles but before we get to that report

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I better tell you that we've got a new

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reporter a new reporter on the skeptic

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zone mandy lee Noble and her segment is

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going to be called the diet skeptic

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mandy lee noble is a dietician and

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skeptic from Brisbane up in Queensland

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dedicated to exposing health and

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wellness whoo and promoting inclusive

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evidence-based health care

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member of the dietitians Association of

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Australia registered Australian

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independent dietitian nutritionist Wow

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the diet skeptic what's good to eat

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what's bad to eat what shouldn't you eat

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what can I eat what's downstairs for me

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to eat find out with the diet skeptic

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very first report coming up at the top

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of the show also in this week's show we

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here once again from dr. Danny chambers

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the vet you will remember in the UK who

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is mounting a very strong campaign

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against homeopathic veterinary care

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homeopathic veterinary care vets who

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prescribe homeopathy instead of real

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medicine well he wrote an article for

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the veterinary times it's also published

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online and that's what I'll be reading

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out today homeopathic veterinary care I

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don't think so also in this week's show

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we have a couple of reports from

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brouhaha from Australia science dot TV

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this week it's casey Harrigan now those

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people who listen to the skeptic ality

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podcast on a very recent episode i think

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the most recent episode is an interview

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with me conducted by susan go back from

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guerrilla skepticism non Wikipedia Thank

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You Derek from skeptic ality and thank

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you susan Kubek was a lot of fun being

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interviewed the tables were turned on me

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for a change and the tables were turned

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earlier this morning very early 530am my

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time but that's okay I'm jet-lagged

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where I was interviewed by the ESP

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podcast and I think that'll be coming up

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pretty soon I on that particular show so

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thanks to the ESP for interviewing me

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and now here's something that's not

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skeptical in the least he had this

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wonderful music recently my brother and

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a friend went and traveled around Cuba

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they had a wonderful time listening to

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the local music and as a result there is

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now a Kickstarter page and the aim is to

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help produce a new album true Cuban

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music the album's going to be called

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Cala Alice Ted which translates to

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Friendship street it's going to be an

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album of new music in the Sun style as

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created by the next wave of musicians

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from Cuba wow if you love Latin music

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and that sort of beaten it sort of a

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rhythm that sort of music why not check

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it out there is the link on this week's

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show notes and I've put a little loud a

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little banner on the the website of the

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skeptic zone if you like that sort of

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thing well why not help out again not

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much to do with skepticism but it's nice

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to help out there my friends and family

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from time to time but that's enough from

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me right now I'm going to run down or

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before I run downstairs before I run

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downstairs now where I here they are

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here they are now hear this it's a

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packet of mints yes means I picked up in

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the United States the flavor is called

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wintergreen and you can't get that

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flavor in Australia as far as i know and

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it's my instant favorite hmm wintergreen

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mints I wonder if you like them now

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people who know me when I go to the

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United States our waste take a packet of

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musk sticks with me the traditional

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Australian candy and watch the faces of

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poor Americans as they try to eat it

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many people spit it out well I was

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offering some wintergreen mints around

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the Australian skeptics committee just

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yesterday when I was catching up with

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everybody and I got similar expressions

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on their faces hmm do you like

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wintergreen can I get wintergreen in

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Australia these are important questions

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folks I must be really jet-lagged I'm

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going to run downstairs looking out for

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the skeptics and cats I'm going to

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downstairs just have a nice hot cup of

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tea and a biscuit Tina biscuit well I'm

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doing that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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zone

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that looks good enough to eat or does it

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here's the diet skeptic mandy lee noble

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hello skeptics own listeners mandy lee

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noble here dietitian and skeptic

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reporting from brisbane as the diet

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skeptic i hope to bring you many reports

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on my favorite skeptic topic health and

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wellness woo as well as reports on the

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other fantastic skeptic activities

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happening here in Queensland when it

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comes to health and wellness whew there

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is no end to the pseudoscience and shams

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I could investigate but for my very

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first report the skeptic zone I have

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chosen MTHFR gene testing and treatments

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this is an issue that is gaining

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momentum in Australia with many

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complementary and alternative medicine

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providers now advising clients to have

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genetic testing to verify their MTHFR

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status there is a dedicated MTHFR clinic

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in sydney called MTHFR support australia

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the clinic was founded by naturopath

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carolyn lebowski it provides

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consultations interpretations of genetic

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test results educational webinars and a

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range of exorbitantly overpriced

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supplements unfortunately I also need to

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mention that MTHFR diagnosis and

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treatment is being practiced by a small

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number of GPS and dieticians and in many

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cases medicare is currently funding

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MTHFR testing so what is MTHFR it is an

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acronym for

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methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase an

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enzyme involved in the metabolism of

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follow allowing it to perform important

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functions in DNA replication and

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maintenance the MTHFR enzyme is coded

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from the MTHFR gene which has a small

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number of variations in the population

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the variant enzymes are functional but

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less efficient we all have two copies of

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each gene and the majority of people

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have at least one MTHFR gene that codes

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a less efficient enzyme genetic variants

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makes us robust as a species and gene

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changes are not necessarily associated

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with disease the different blood groups

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a B and O are an example of gene

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variants so what are the implications of

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MTHFR studies show people with MTHFR

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variants in addition to a poor diet low

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in folate may have reduced blood folate

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and increase homocysteine levels

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homocysteine levels have been associated

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with cardiovascular disease cancer

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autism mental illness as well as

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recurrent pregnancy loss and neural tube

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defects however the current evidence for

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all of these associations is described

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as either weak or inconclusive health

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authorities both here in Australia and

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internationally recommend not testing

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for the MTHFR variants in regards to any

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health condition as MTHFR status is not

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relevant for diagnosis or treatment so

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other possible benefits of MTHFR

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variants while proponents of MTHFR

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testing raise concerns about the

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possible harms of MTHFR variants they

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neglect to mention that there is

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significant evidence that MTHFR variance

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is protective against colon cancer

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lymphatic leukemia and other cancers

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there also appears to be a strong

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evolutionary selection for the MTHFR

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variants where there is adequate

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followed intake indicating that the

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variants may provide a survival benefit

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another claim by the proponents of MTHFR

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testing is that folate in the form of

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folic acid is harmful to those with the

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variant genes many advocates for MTHFR

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testing prescribe and sell a very

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expensive alternative form of folate

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supplement called methyl folate however

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the research does not support these

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claims and in Australia folic acid added

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to wheat flour for bread making purposes

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has reduced the incidence of neural tube

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defects by fourteen percent in the

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general population and by seventy four

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percent in indigenous populations it is

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also important to note that the MTHFR

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support clinic strongly advises clients

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to adopt a completely gluten-free diet

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no scientifically robust reason is given

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for this advice and such a change would

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effectively reduce the folate intake

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through fortified foods of those who may

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benefit most finally but very

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importantly naturopathic Carolyn lab

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dowski also claims that MTHFR variants

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increases susceptibility to aluminium

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polysorbate and formaldehyde found in

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childhood vaccinations madoski does not

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provide any scientific evidence to

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support these claims despite advising

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her clients to either deviate from the

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current vaccination schedule or consider

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not vaccinating their child so what did

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MTHFR testing become a thing in the

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first place carolyn Landowski founder of

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MTHFR support australia sums it up

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perfectly in her

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words on the MTHFR support website and I

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quote I certainly got to this point

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because I continuously saw people in my

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practice who just were not getting

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better despite giving them the normal

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supplements & herb's that I would expect

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them to respond to and I kept thinking

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that there had to be something more

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Occam's razor would suggest that the

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supplements don't work but cognitive

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dissidence convince ladakhi that the

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something more is MTHFR so to wrap up if

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we were to take advice from all health

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authorities including the American Heart

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Association the American Congress of

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Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and the

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American College of medical genetics as

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well as our own Royal Australian College

276
00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:31,680
of General Practitioners there would be

277
00:14:40,010 --> 00:14:35,670
no reason to ever recommend MTHFR gene

278
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,020
testing given the evidence Australian

279
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:42,240
taxpayers and healthcare consumers

280
00:14:49,450 --> 00:14:44,730
should be asking questions about whether

281
00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:49,460
Medicare should be funding MTHFR testing

282
00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:53,700
reduced MTHFR dm's I'm function does not

283
00:14:59,570 --> 00:14:55,740
require treatment and those who have

284
00:15:00,920 --> 00:14:59,580
less efficient MTHFR enzymes benefit

285
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:00,930
most from the current health

286
00:15:09,890 --> 00:15:03,930
recommendations for diet and pregnancy

287
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:09,900
given to all Australians thanks everyone

288
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:13,050
for listening I recommend that anyone

289
00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:15,300
with concerns regarding childhood

290
00:15:22,340 --> 00:15:18,620
vaccinations visit the Northern Rivers

291
00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:22,350
vaccination supporters website bye for

292
00:15:39,319 --> 00:15:36,009
[Music]

293
00:15:41,479 --> 00:15:39,329
it never ends a friend starts talking

294
00:15:43,099 --> 00:15:41,489
about his new Reiki Master and someone

295
00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:43,109
else just posted about another

296
00:15:48,319 --> 00:15:45,809
all-natural cancer cure that they don't

297
00:15:50,539 --> 00:15:48,329
want you to know about a skeptics we

298
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:50,549
dedicate a lot of time trying to protect

299
00:15:54,859 --> 00:15:52,649
those around us but there's a way that

300
00:15:57,469 --> 00:15:54,869
you can reach millions guerrilla

301
00:15:59,359 --> 00:15:57,479
skepticism on Wikipedia is a group that

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00:16:01,819 --> 00:15:59,369
is working to keep the best skeptical

303
00:16:04,909 --> 00:16:01,829
information at everyone's fingertips in

304
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:04,919
all languages join us training is

305
00:16:10,339 --> 00:16:07,649
self-paced and fun and we have our very

306
00:16:12,859 --> 00:16:10,349
own super secret Facebook group you will

307
00:16:17,169 --> 00:16:12,869
be educating the world in your sleep to

308
00:16:21,229 --> 00:16:17,179
find out more email us at GS o w team @

309
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:21,239
gmail.com guerrilla skepticism the time

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00:16:31,410 --> 00:16:38,469
[Music]

311
00:16:43,609 --> 00:16:40,969
listens to the skeptic zone may well

312
00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:43,619
remember that he's shown number 404 on

313
00:16:49,909 --> 00:16:46,769
the seventeenth of July 2016 we

314
00:16:54,259 --> 00:16:49,919
interviewed UK the vet dr. Dani chambers

315
00:16:57,499 --> 00:16:54,269
about a petition he put together to stop

316
00:16:59,599 --> 00:16:57,509
vets from using homeopathy to treat

317
00:17:02,449 --> 00:16:59,609
animals we're pleased to bring you an

318
00:17:07,149 --> 00:17:02,459
update on the story in the way of an

319
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:11,960
published in the veterinary times UK why

320
00:17:17,059 --> 00:17:13,799
the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons

321
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:17,069
must prevent vets from prescribing

322
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:20,369
homeopathy the case against homeopathy

323
00:17:26,419 --> 00:17:23,850
has never been a clearer with every well

324
00:17:29,619 --> 00:17:26,429
controlled study showing these remedies

325
00:17:32,899 --> 00:17:29,629
and no more effective than a placebo

326
00:17:35,749 --> 00:17:32,909
this is to be expected as homeopathic

327
00:17:39,499 --> 00:17:35,759
treatments contain no active substances

328
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:39,509
at all the reason I started this

329
00:17:46,009 --> 00:17:43,289
campaign was because I figured I can't

330
00:17:48,289 --> 00:17:46,019
be the only vet who no longer wants to

331
00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:48,299
have to see animals whose perfectly

332
00:17:53,509 --> 00:17:50,990
treatable conditions have been left to

333
00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:53,519
deteriorate because their owners and

334
00:18:00,049 --> 00:17:56,070
vets were convinced homeopathic remedies

335
00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:00,059
would do the trick given more than 1,100

336
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:02,190
of my veterinary colleagues signed the

337
00:18:07,489 --> 00:18:05,610
petition it appears I was right it is

338
00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:07,499
clear to me treating animals with

339
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:10,700
homeopathy at best leads to unnecessary

340
00:18:16,879 --> 00:18:13,769
suffering and reduced likelihood of a

341
00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:16,889
full recovery and at worst as with a

342
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,350
case of a horse I saw that had been

343
00:18:23,649 --> 00:18:21,360
treated for cushing's syndrome and

344
00:18:26,289 --> 00:18:23,659
chronic laminitis homeopathic ly

345
00:18:29,299 --> 00:18:26,299
conditions deteriorate so severely that

346
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:29,309
euthanasia is the only option I also

347
00:18:34,369 --> 00:18:31,980
feel very strongly the use of homeopathy

348
00:18:37,090 --> 00:18:34,379
and other pseudo-scientific treatments

349
00:18:39,739 --> 00:18:37,100
in the profession gives it a bad name

350
00:18:43,009 --> 00:18:39,749
members of the public expect when they

351
00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,019
see a vet to get advice that represents

352
00:18:46,790 --> 00:18:45,720
the best treatment based on the totality

353
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:46,800
of

354
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,200
they are instead given treatment based

355
00:19:00,500 --> 00:18:57,840
on the personal beliefs of an extreme

356
00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:00,510
fringe that directly contradicts the

357
00:19:05,090 --> 00:19:02,070
wealth of evidence gathered by the

358
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:05,100
veterinary field this clearly undermines

359
00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:07,830
the reputation of the entire field is

360
00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:11,640
being reliable responsible and robust so

361
00:19:18,050 --> 00:19:15,270
if it is only a minority of vets why is

362
00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:18,060
it important given more than 22,000

363
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,630
registered vets exist the 200 or fewer

364
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:24,480
who practice homeopathy in fact an

365
00:19:29,620 --> 00:19:26,760
article cited 50 vets licensed to

366
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:29,630
practice homeopathy represent around

367
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:33,630
point 25 to 1 percent of the profession

368
00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:36,330
yet if the Royal College of venery

369
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:39,000
surgeons fails to end the prescription

370
00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:41,250
of homeopathic remedies by this fringe

371
00:19:46,370 --> 00:19:44,070
group of vets it is an implicit

372
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:46,380
endorsement of their use of these

373
00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:50,160
treatments it would therefore also be an

374
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:52,590
imp listen acceptance of vets who place

375
00:19:57,260 --> 00:19:55,290
animal welfare at risk by putting their

376
00:20:00,590 --> 00:19:57,270
personal beliefs ahead of evidence-based

377
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:00,600
medicine and the body of knowledge our

378
00:20:04,670 --> 00:20:02,730
profession has a cured that these

379
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:04,680
treatments are offered by qualified vets

380
00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:08,160
suggests to the public homeopathy is not

381
00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:11,660
a wacky pseudoscience but an equivalent

382
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:14,820
legitimate option perhaps just as

383
00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:17,490
effective as conventional medicine they

384
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:19,620
may be more likely to use it on

385
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:22,890
themselves or their children as some

386
00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:24,900
high-profile media cases have

387
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:27,030
highlighted the consequences of

388
00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:29,820
well-meaning parents using homeopathic

389
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:31,740
remedies to treat children suffering

390
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:35,520
from meningitis can be tragic preventing

391
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:37,920
vets from using homeopathy would send a

392
00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:41,010
clear message to the public of it not

393
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:43,790
being approved by medical professionals

394
00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:47,310
not being a genuine effective treatment

395
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:49,940
and being firmly in the quote

396
00:20:57,380 --> 00:20:53,370
alternative and quote and in fact

397
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,390
disproven camp with no backing by

398
00:21:00,960 --> 00:20:59,520
conventionally trained professionals

399
00:21:03,330 --> 00:21:00,970
while the number

400
00:21:05,490 --> 00:21:03,340
of companion animals that may suffer as

401
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:05,500
a result of using homeopathic remedies

402
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:08,559
is relatively small given the fringe

403
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:11,110
nature of belief in homeopathy among

404
00:21:15,770 --> 00:21:13,570
vets clearly causing an amount of

405
00:21:18,690 --> 00:21:15,780
avoidable suffering is deeply unethical

406
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:18,700
furthermore if a vet who believed

407
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:21,250
passionately in homeopathy was to raise

408
00:21:27,930 --> 00:21:26,020
to the position of CVO the potential

409
00:21:30,090 --> 00:21:27,940
damage done when forming government

410
00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:30,100
policy regarding antimicrobial

411
00:21:37,169 --> 00:21:33,640
resistance or disease outbreaks could be

412
00:21:39,899 --> 00:21:37,179
catastrophic I have regularly worked on

413
00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:39,909
rabies control projects in India to

414
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:42,760
prevent dogs from dying of rabies and to

415
00:21:48,029 --> 00:21:44,770
prevent the disease infecting and

416
00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:48,039
killing people to enjoy poem as a result

417
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:50,200
of vaccinating and neutering eighty-five

418
00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:52,809
percent of the street dog population no

419
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:55,240
reported human cases of rabies have

420
00:22:01,919 --> 00:21:59,440
occurred since 2003 in 2016 I worked on

421
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:01,929
a post-conflict livestock vaccination

422
00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:04,960
program in Iraq to help improve food

423
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:07,900
security these are projects that affect

424
00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:10,630
not just animal welfare but human

425
00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:14,020
well-being too if I was a homeopathic

426
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:17,320
vet imagine the time money and lives

427
00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:19,990
that would have been wasted if I thought

428
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:22,780
homeopathic no doses could prevent

429
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:25,690
rabies and dogs or were a substitute for

430
00:22:32,010 --> 00:22:28,210
foot and mouth disease vaccination in

431
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:32,020
sheep and goats this would rightly be

432
00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:34,450
viewed as ridiculous and no competent

433
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:36,460
vet would use homeopathy in those

434
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,370
situations yet we know colleagues who

435
00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:41,679
put their faith in homeopathy offer no

436
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:44,830
doses in the place of vaccination the

437
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:46,210
Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons

438
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:48,970
States one reason for permitting vets to

439
00:22:54,029 --> 00:22:51,850
prescribe homeopathy is pet owners will

440
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:54,039
want to use homeopathic treatments

441
00:22:59,039 --> 00:22:56,110
anyway so it is better for a vet to

442
00:23:01,500 --> 00:22:59,049
administer this as he or she will be

443
00:23:03,870 --> 00:23:01,510
better place to monitor the welfare it

444
00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:03,880
does not want homeopathic treatments to

445
00:23:09,630 --> 00:23:06,820
be forced quote underground men quote on

446
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:09,640
the surface this argument appears to

447
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:12,610
make sense but i believe it is flawed

448
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:14,210
for a number of reasons

449
00:23:18,979 --> 00:23:17,220
firstly it does not make any difference

450
00:23:20,989 --> 00:23:18,989
to the animal whether effective

451
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:20,999
treatment or painkillers are withheld by

452
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:24,690
a lay person or a qualified vet a lay

453
00:23:30,109 --> 00:23:27,450
person can be prosecuted for not seeking

454
00:23:32,389 --> 00:23:30,119
veterinary treatment if he or she gives

455
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:32,399
homeopathy instead of appropriate

456
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:35,730
interventions however if he or she goes

457
00:23:40,729 --> 00:23:38,190
to a homeopathic vet the outcome is the

458
00:23:43,399 --> 00:23:40,739
same for the animal but neither the

459
00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:43,409
owner nor the vet face any rebuke and

460
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:46,200
the owner does not realize he or she has

461
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:50,940
been done a disservice secondly I don't

462
00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:53,129
believe homeopathic vets are best placed

463
00:23:58,970 --> 00:23:56,190
to monitor animal welfare because I feel

464
00:24:02,119 --> 00:23:58,980
their belief in a disproven modality

465
00:24:03,859 --> 00:24:02,129
casts doubts on their critical judgment

466
00:24:06,830 --> 00:24:03,869
take the example of a cat with

467
00:24:09,649 --> 00:24:06,840
hyperthyroidism if a homeopathic vet is

468
00:24:12,229 --> 00:24:09,659
willing to administer homeopathy instead

469
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:12,239
of appropriate treatment we know this

470
00:24:17,389 --> 00:24:14,730
lack of valid treatment can cause the

471
00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:17,399
animals health to deteriorate at what

472
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:19,950
point do we trust the homeopathic vet to

473
00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:22,710
stop giving the homeopathy and treat the

474
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:26,070
animal properly when it develops renal

475
00:24:32,299 --> 00:24:29,039
failure when its weight drops below a

476
00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:32,309
certain amount likewise if he or she is

477
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:34,350
willing to treat a horse with laminitis

478
00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:37,980
with homeopathy can we trust him or her

479
00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:40,590
to monitor welfare by giving proper

480
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:43,980
treatment at some point maybe when the

481
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:45,720
heart rate is more than 60 beats per

482
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:48,600
minute or when there is visible rotation

483
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:51,720
of the pedal bones on radiographs the

484
00:24:58,220 --> 00:24:54,450
British Association of homeopathic of

485
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:58,230
veterinary surgeons bah vs claims to

486
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:01,559
cure cancer with homeopathy and Jeff

487
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:04,200
Johnson the homeopath whose claims the

488
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,080
bah vs features prominently on its

489
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:09,600
website claimed during an interview with

490
00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:12,720
the BBC that he was treating quote many

491
00:25:19,879 --> 00:25:16,409
and quote dogs with a view to curing

492
00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:19,889
their cancer he told the BBC's Victoria

493
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:22,409
Derbyshire his ability to cure cancer

494
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:25,350
with homeopathy was one of the main

495
00:25:30,049 --> 00:25:27,299
reasons animal owners

496
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,059
used to get treatment from him I do not

497
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:33,600
believe we nor the public are able to

498
00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:36,330
trust the clinical judgment of vets who

499
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:37,980
believe they can cure cancer with

500
00:25:42,409 --> 00:25:40,440
homeopathy instead these animals need

501
00:25:45,019 --> 00:25:42,419
appropriate treatment or possibly

502
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:45,029
euthanasia their owners are being

503
00:25:49,639 --> 00:25:47,129
offered a disservice by being sold

504
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:49,649
ineffective treatments that offer false

505
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,289
hope the Royal College of venery

506
00:25:58,190 --> 00:25:54,960
surgeons stated quote homeopathy is

507
00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:58,200
accepted by society and quote though it

508
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:00,570
doesn't make clear what it means by this

509
00:26:06,889 --> 00:26:03,960
claim what constitutes quote social

510
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:06,899
acceptance end quote evidently it

511
00:26:11,899 --> 00:26:09,450
ignores the fact that every credible

512
00:26:15,049 --> 00:26:11,909
expert and a large proportion of the

513
00:26:17,379 --> 00:26:15,059
public sees homeopathy has a nonsensical

514
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:17,389
and potentially dangerous waste of time

515
00:26:22,879 --> 00:26:20,340
even if it were true that homeopathy was

516
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:22,889
accepted by society it says nothing

517
00:26:28,609 --> 00:26:26,700
about whether the treatment works we do

518
00:26:31,940 --> 00:26:28,619
not make health interventions on the

519
00:26:34,639 --> 00:26:31,950
beliefs of a small but vocal fringe

520
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:34,649
group in society we must follow the

521
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:37,190
evidence many beliefs in society are

522
00:26:44,349 --> 00:26:40,590
incorrect but it is the purpose of

523
00:26:47,419 --> 00:26:44,359
research and expertise to help educate

524
00:26:49,549 --> 00:26:47,429
condoning and pandering to mistaken

525
00:26:51,349 --> 00:26:49,559
fringe beliefs there's nothing to

526
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:51,359
improve society's understanding of

527
00:26:58,159 --> 00:26:55,470
science and medicine changing beliefs I

528
00:27:00,489 --> 00:26:58,169
want to make it clear I have no

529
00:27:03,739 --> 00:27:00,499
particular ax to grind with homeopathy

530
00:27:05,899 --> 00:27:03,749
specifically other then it runs so

531
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:05,909
clearly counter to evidence-based

532
00:27:11,299 --> 00:27:08,970
medicine unlike homeopaths if clinical

533
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:11,309
trials showed a particular drug or

534
00:27:17,989 --> 00:27:14,070
surgical technique I had been using for

535
00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:17,999
years was useless did more harm or had

536
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:20,190
simply been superseded by something

537
00:27:26,659 --> 00:27:23,369
superior I would be eager to change my

538
00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:26,669
position I actively want to know when

539
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:29,220
and if i can improve my clinical

540
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:31,470
practice whether that means to stop

541
00:27:37,789 --> 00:27:34,350
using a product or switching to

542
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:37,799
something better indeed it would be

543
00:27:41,030 --> 00:27:40,289
intellectually bankrupt of me too

544
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:41,040
desperate

545
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:43,080
seek out every piece of anecdotal

546
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:45,450
evidence I could find to support my

547
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:47,700
existing position or to cherry pick

548
00:27:52,010 --> 00:27:50,250
whatever study justifies continuing

549
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:52,020
along my path in the face of

550
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:54,590
overwhelming evidence to the contrary

551
00:28:00,410 --> 00:27:57,480
when discussing a faith-based belief

552
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:00,420
system such as homeopathy emotions

553
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:03,330
inevitably run high which is perhaps why

554
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,240
this debate remains so persistent

555
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:09,360
despite it being fewer than 1% of vets

556
00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:12,570
who put their belief in homeopathy I am

557
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:14,430
aware of no amount of scientific

558
00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:17,370
evidence will change the opinions of the

559
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:20,070
hardcore believers that is the very

560
00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:23,520
nature of such a belief system if you

561
00:28:28,390 --> 00:28:25,920
are a believer in homeopathy I fully

562
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:28,400
understand you may be feeling persecuted

563
00:28:35,690 --> 00:28:33,090
by my petition and my calls to prevent

564
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:35,700
homeopathic treatments I know a belief

565
00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:38,250
in homeopathy some will have held for

566
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:40,590
decades will form a large part of your

567
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:43,410
identity I can identify with your

568
00:28:48,290 --> 00:28:45,570
position I was brought up in an

569
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:48,300
evangelical church that taught us the

570
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:51,510
earth was created in six days exactly as

571
00:28:59,450 --> 00:28:55,530
the Bible described around 6,000 years

572
00:29:01,760 --> 00:28:59,460
ago and evolution is alive these kinds

573
00:29:03,950 --> 00:29:01,770
of beliefs shape your whole identity it

574
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,960
affects how you interpret scientific

575
00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:06,000
information I have personal

576
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:09,420
understanding of how hard it can be to

577
00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:11,730
tear yourself away from a belief that

578
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:14,270
has influenced your thinking for years

579
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:17,460
when I realized no big coordinated

580
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:19,310
deception by the scientific community

581
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:22,950
existed I began a painful process to

582
00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:25,850
accept a literal six-day creation was

583
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:29,040
incorrect it was never my intention to

584
00:29:35,180 --> 00:29:32,010
deliberately upset anyone and I'm sorry

585
00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:35,190
for any hurt caused this is why I have

586
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:37,500
directed this campaign towards the Royal

587
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:39,930
College of Veterinary Surgeons to be an

588
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:43,950
impartial third party just like the rest

589
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,830
of us homeopaths want what is best for

590
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:49,440
animals under their care and what is

591
00:29:54,130 --> 00:29:52,020
best for the profession unfortunately

592
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:54,140
being well-intentioned

593
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:56,810
and deluded is no substitute for being

594
00:30:01,840 --> 00:29:59,360
right especially when the cost of being

595
00:30:06,180 --> 00:30:01,850
wrong causes animals to suffer and

596
00:30:08,530 --> 00:30:06,190
brings the profession into disrepute and

597
00:30:10,690 --> 00:30:08,540
that was why the Royal College of

598
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:10,700
veterans must prevent vets from

599
00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:13,130
prescribing homeopathy written by dr.

600
00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:14,660
Danny chambers published in the

601
00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:33,020
veterinary times and now direct from the

602
00:30:43,330 --> 00:30:36,380
cafe at Australia's science channel its

603
00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:43,340
brouhaha with Casey Harrigan any time I

604
00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:45,620
see someone walking along all smugly

605
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:47,750
holding party balloons I can't help but

606
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,240
think oh we need that helium for science

607
00:30:55,330 --> 00:30:53,600
and I was right to until yesterday when

608
00:30:57,850 --> 00:30:55,340
researchers announced they discovered a

609
00:31:00,730 --> 00:30:57,860
huge helium gas field in the Rift Valley

610
00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:00,740
of Tanzania we're running out of a

611
00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:03,080
finite supply of helium because it

612
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:04,700
literally slips through our fingers and

613
00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:07,070
shoots off through the atmosphere never

614
00:31:11,980 --> 00:31:09,590
to return this discovery gives us

615
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:11,990
another seven years on our previous 20

616
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:14,720
year supply buying us more time to find

617
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:16,970
even more helium reserves and get better

618
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:20,210
at recycling what we do have it's seven

619
00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:22,760
extra years of MRI machines weather

620
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:24,980
balloons deep sea diving quantum

621
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,170
computing Large Hadron Collider ring and

622
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:29,360
my personal favorite rocket engine

623
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:31,730
cleaning and yes but grudgingly I'll

624
00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:34,010
admit it seven extra is a party balloons

625
00:31:38,050 --> 00:31:36,500
but seriously what would you rather a

626
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:38,060
balloon that makes you crane your neck

627
00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:40,430
to look at it or a fully functioning

628
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:43,280
rocket we need that helium for science

629
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:46,450
guys science

630
00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:50,820
ah summer in the southern hemisphere

631
00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:53,470
cranking some tunes gazing out over the

632
00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:56,140
ocean and plowing through six meter deep

633
00:32:01,620 --> 00:31:59,050
snow to expose the road underneath yup

634
00:32:04,620 --> 00:32:01,630
summer is well and truly underway for

635
00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:04,630
the Ozzy's in Antarctica so while I'm

636
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:06,790
drinking mojitos and splashing around at

637
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:08,110
the beach what will the summer

638
00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:09,910
highlights be for the intrepid folk

639
00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:13,000
calling Antarctica home first up the

640
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:15,550
million-year ice core otherwise known as

641
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:17,830
the holy grail of climate science

642
00:32:21,630 --> 00:32:19,810
basically somewhere underneath

643
00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:21,640
Antarctica there's some ice that's a

644
00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:24,190
million years old and Australia is part

645
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:26,800
of an international race to find it when

646
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,750
we do it'll tell us all sorts of things

647
00:32:32,910 --> 00:32:31,120
about the history of our climate this

648
00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:32,920
summer will involve some preliminary

649
00:32:38,250 --> 00:32:35,350
drilling so that by 2020 we can track

650
00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:38,260
down the real thing meanwhile the

651
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:41,080
largest ever all-female expedition to

652
00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:44,740
Antarctica is underway 76 women from all

653
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:46,590
sorts of scientific disciplines like

654
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:49,930
astronomers engineers physicists doctors

655
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:51,880
social scientists and teachers are

656
00:32:55,650 --> 00:32:53,710
chilling out together on the voyage as

657
00:32:58,050 --> 00:32:55,660
part of a larger project to develop

658
00:32:59,730 --> 00:32:58,060
women's leadership in science also

659
00:33:01,200 --> 00:32:59,740
because women should have just as many

660
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:01,210
opportunities to see penguins in the

661
00:33:07,810 --> 00:33:04,330
wild as men so no matter who you are or

662
00:33:11,170 --> 00:33:07,820
where you are have a great summer

663
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:11,180
for more brouhaha and Australian science

664
00:33:27,049 --> 00:33:16,130
head for ww Australia science TV

665
00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:27,059
[Music]

666
00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:29,740
see a stock simply idiot hey Sal who

667
00:33:34,590 --> 00:33:32,380
guys guys I just had the most amazing

668
00:33:36,450 --> 00:33:34,600
experience what experience unders unders

669
00:33:38,250 --> 00:33:36,460
have you been to the pub children not

670
00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:38,260
hang out with mash you know he was

671
00:33:43,230 --> 00:33:40,750
blessed by peter Popoff no yellow no i'm

672
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:43,240
not talking about psychics it was a

673
00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:45,640
really SP experience now you have been

674
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:47,260
to the pub either that or you've been

675
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:50,169
smoking something no punches the ESP is

676
00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:52,600
the European skeptics podcast it's the

677
00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:54,700
most amazing thing you get to know so

678
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:56,830
much about skeptics and their activities

679
00:34:01,770 --> 00:33:59,679
across Europe you know events hot topics

680
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:01,780
and interviews with lots of interesting

681
00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:04,000
people oh wow cool by the way pointers

682
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:05,740
you just come into the false dichotomy

683
00:34:11,010 --> 00:34:08,169
fallacy I guess that means I'm really

684
00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:11,020
wrong yep and you can even learn about

685
00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:13,030
those fallacies in the show and hear

686
00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:15,520
about people spreading silly ideas you

687
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:17,800
should really check it out it's the ESP

688
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:20,770
the European skeptics podcast it's on

689
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:23,470
never weak alright so where can I get

690
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:25,810
this is the experience it sounds good

691
00:34:31,530 --> 00:34:28,450
you can go online at the ESP do to you

692
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:31,540
follow it on twitter at es podcast

693
00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:34,570
underscore EU or like the podcast on

694
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:36,700
facebook oh and you can also contact the

695
00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:39,760
show by sending them an email to info at

696
00:34:45,629 --> 00:34:43,600
the ESPE you and if you want to

697
00:34:48,379 --> 00:34:45,639
subscribe do a quick search for the

698
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:48,389
european skeptic podcast on soundcloud

699
00:34:56,860 --> 00:34:51,770
itunes or stitcher

700
00:35:12,640 --> 00:34:56,870
I don't know I you can't believe

701
00:35:15,830 --> 00:35:12,650
[Music]

702
00:35:19,210 --> 00:35:15,840
well here we are the La Brea Tar Pits in

703
00:35:24,010 --> 00:35:19,220
beautiful Los Angeles on a cloudy day

704
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:24,020
and we're looking over a vast swamp of

705
00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:28,530
oily goo and there's a model over there

706
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:30,660
of a master none I guess it is now I'm

707
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:33,050
standing next to up-and-coming geologist

708
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:35,040
Andrew Dunning Andrew what are we

709
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:37,890
looking at and what are those bubbles so

710
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,740
this big lake here the most famous pit

711
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:42,240
at the La Brea Tar Pits was an old

712
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:43,980
asphalt mine that operated in the early

713
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:46,890
20th century and now that we've had a

714
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:48,770
lot of rain recently there's a

715
00:35:53,690 --> 00:35:50,970
significant amount of water on top of it

716
00:35:55,550 --> 00:35:53,700
and you can see oil slicks and tar

717
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:55,560
puddles on top of the water because as

718
00:35:59,840 --> 00:35:57,690
we know oil is less dense than water and

719
00:36:01,580 --> 00:35:59,850
there's lots of bubbles bubbling up

720
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:01,590
through it smells quite strongly of

721
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:05,310
methane and oil yep and these bubbles

722
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:07,590
are produced by a unique several species

723
00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:09,630
of bacteria that are found probably

724
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:11,550
nowhere else in the world it's it so

725
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:13,050
it's an interesting view because what

726
00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:14,490
they've done is they've put that model

727
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:16,830
of the mastodon over there as it's just

728
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:18,780
about the staggering and we get caught

729
00:36:23,390 --> 00:36:20,910
in the Tar Pits which is exactly what

730
00:36:25,070 --> 00:36:23,400
this whole area is about which covers

731
00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:25,080
thousands upon thousands of years of

732
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,180
history of this exact spot with animals

733
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:29,040
wandering into the tar in getting stuck

734
00:36:33,770 --> 00:36:31,710
yeah that's exactly right there's a the

735
00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:33,780
museum here the page Museum at the La

736
00:36:37,610 --> 00:36:36,120
Brea Tar Pits has thousands upon

737
00:36:40,430 --> 00:36:37,620
thousands of fossils that have been

738
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:40,440
excavated since the late 19th century

739
00:36:46,970 --> 00:36:44,400
here of various predators and animals

740
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:46,980
and insects pollen all sorts of things

741
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:48,570
that have been trapped in the sticky tar

742
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:51,570
for thousands of years and what and will

743
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,920
go in would you still outside the

744
00:36:57,230 --> 00:36:55,200
gardens will go in soon and I was here

745
00:36:59,870 --> 00:36:57,240
many years ago with Brian Dunning from

746
00:37:01,880 --> 00:36:59,880
skip toy calm oddly enough and one of

747
00:37:05,180 --> 00:37:01,890
the things that I remember strongly all

748
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:05,190
the direwolves my goodness me over

749
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:06,870
hundreds and thousands of years all the

750
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:08,490
direwolves that ended their lives right

751
00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:10,440
here being stuck in the in the Tar Pits

752
00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:13,320
it's quite incredible now speaking of

753
00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:15,540
internet type things I noticed that you

754
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:19,190
have a interesting series about geology

755
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:21,210
you're filming at the moment what can

756
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:23,370
you tell us about that a few months ago

757
00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:24,690
i started a

758
00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:27,060
youtube series called better geology all

759
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:30,900
one word that is all about geology in

760
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:33,690
places I go Death Valley the Cascade

761
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:36,450
Mountains in the northwest a lot of the

762
00:37:42,589 --> 00:37:37,950
videos I've been working on have been

763
00:37:45,410 --> 00:37:42,599
following the standard university level

764
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:45,420
of geology curriculum that I've been

765
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:47,400
going through and going through and

766
00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:49,650
elaborating on those topics one at a

767
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:51,390
time they're short videos one to two

768
00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:54,569
minutes on average and I'm doing my best

769
00:37:59,930 --> 00:37:58,260
to explain basic principles of geology I

770
00:38:01,640 --> 00:37:59,940
think it's wonderful and how can people

771
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:01,650
view those videos well they're on

772
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:03,540
YouTube better geology is the channel

773
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:06,480
name there's seven videos I think right

774
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:07,950
now and i'm working on a whole bunch of

775
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:09,359
them that i filmed from my most recent

776
00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:13,410
trip in Death Valley and they should be

777
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:15,630
coming up in the coming weeks excellent

778
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:17,490
well folks look I'll definitely linked

779
00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:19,530
to better geology on the show notes so

780
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:22,740
we better wander around now around pass

781
00:38:26,660 --> 00:38:24,780
this tree this is all fenced off of

782
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:26,670
course but it's a giant black pool folks

783
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:28,859
if you can imagine that with various

784
00:38:33,950 --> 00:38:32,310
models of animals about to go into the

785
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:33,960
tar in fact there's a poor master on

786
00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:36,690
over there and its death flows it seems

787
00:38:41,809 --> 00:38:39,900
to me and lots of bubbling bubbling

788
00:38:45,050 --> 00:38:41,819
methane and all sorts of things bubbling

789
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:45,060
up now if you come to Los Angeles and

790
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:46,530
you do the Hollywood to as well that's

791
00:38:51,260 --> 00:38:48,390
very great but don't miss the La Brea

792
00:38:53,059 --> 00:38:51,270
Tar Pits as my second time here and I

793
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:53,069
can't wait to go back inside and look at

794
00:39:03,770 --> 00:38:59,520
all the the history and the science so

795
00:39:07,930 --> 00:39:03,780
we've now in the main exhibit area of

796
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:07,940
the Tar Pits here what do we have here a

797
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:12,089
ground sloth which is about two meters

798
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:15,000
tall it's bigger than a grizzly bear

799
00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:16,770
much bigger than a grizzly bear and the

800
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:18,390
rib cage is tremendous this is one of

801
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:21,540
the creatures that was a dragged out of

802
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:25,050
the Tar Pits and stood over six feet

803
00:39:31,630 --> 00:39:27,650
tall well absolutely probably more

804
00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:31,640
and since he weighed 1500 pounds which I

805
00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:34,760
can believe it's nice to see so many

806
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:37,150
people here lots of kids milling around

807
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:40,030
and there are guides talking about the

808
00:39:44,830 --> 00:39:43,430
the California Sabretooth and if we look

809
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:44,840
in this little display there's one

810
00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:48,650
looking back at us and oh hello we're

811
00:39:52,450 --> 00:39:50,780
doing a podcast from Sydney Australia at

812
00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:52,460
the moment welcome welcome to Los

813
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:54,260
Angeles thank you and your name is it's

814
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:56,390
tricia chasm and you're one of the

815
00:40:01,000 --> 00:39:58,130
guides yeah I'm one of the volunteers

816
00:40:02,830 --> 00:40:01,010
here I used to come here as a child 30

817
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:02,840
years ago so now I work here with the

818
00:40:07,090 --> 00:40:04,490
children in a program and this is a

819
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:07,100
saber-toothed cat well and she's holding

820
00:40:11,740 --> 00:40:09,110
this remarkable scholar Zetas is that a

821
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,750
real scholar or a cost is actually a

822
00:40:15,580 --> 00:40:13,760
cast because I'm very clumsy and I break

823
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:15,590
everything so they didn't trust me but

824
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:17,450
yes everything else you see here was

825
00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:19,760
down in this area but it's tremendous I

826
00:40:25,090 --> 00:40:21,470
mean look at those saber teeth that

827
00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:25,100
amazingly amazing California is really a

828
00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:27,350
pot of gold there are so many amazing

829
00:40:32,830 --> 00:40:29,500
treasures that you can be found in

830
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,840
California so I advise everyone instead

831
00:40:36,610 --> 00:40:34,400
of going there's a million places you

832
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:36,620
can see a beautiful oceans and beautiful

833
00:40:41,950 --> 00:40:38,210
mountains but where can you actually

834
00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:41,960
come and find things like this and touch

835
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:44,990
them and the kids can play and it's an

836
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:47,570
amazing time to come and especially in

837
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,790
the middle of a city it is and I'm

838
00:40:53,290 --> 00:40:51,200
pleased to see so many people here

839
00:40:56,260 --> 00:40:53,300
milling around lots of children and when

840
00:41:00,130 --> 00:40:56,270
about when these poor creatures the

841
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:00,140
saber-toothed cats is a saber-toothed

842
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:02,450
cats is a saber-toothed cat yes most

843
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:04,610
people think it's a tiger but it's not

844
00:41:10,290 --> 00:41:08,090
it's a cat yes but they've been around

845
00:41:12,430 --> 00:41:10,300
quite a long time and we have found

846
00:41:15,490 --> 00:41:12,440
hundreds of these so this was a very

847
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:15,500
prime area there was a lot of marshes a

848
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:18,890
lot of hunting a lot of plans there it

849
00:41:23,350 --> 00:41:20,930
was just such a great breeding area

850
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:23,360
that's why we found so many dot like the

851
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:25,610
direwolf yeah if you've seen how many

852
00:41:31,450 --> 00:41:28,490
we've found a mini what we're finding

853
00:41:33,490 --> 00:41:31,460
today we have people excavators outside

854
00:41:34,050 --> 00:41:33,500
so just today every day we're finding

855
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:34,060
new things

856
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:38,170
that's incredible job security well

857
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,610
thank you for showing me that it's hard

858
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:41,200
to describe to the listen is exactly

859
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:42,970
what we're looking at but it's a

860
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:44,770
tremendous it's a really impressive

861
00:41:49,950 --> 00:41:47,200
skull and i'm sure those teeth could

862
00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:49,960
have done some oh yeah Oh much much

863
00:41:53,730 --> 00:41:52,060
damage but welcome to Los Angeles and

864
00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:53,740
everyone is welcome please come and

865
00:41:57,540 --> 00:41:55,750
enjoy the Tar Pits and the Natural

866
00:42:01,400 --> 00:41:57,550
History Museum anytime we are always

867
00:42:07,020 --> 00:42:01,410
welcome thank you it's a woolly mammoth

868
00:42:11,220 --> 00:42:07,030
the great curved tusks so my god a model

869
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:11,230
it's swaying if I walk just behind it

870
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:18,730
this a skeleton hear of a mammoth which

871
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:22,210
is I couldn't have said it better myself

872
00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:26,470
it's huge Andrew Dunning this is a huge

873
00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:29,440
animal yes it is it's all you have to

874
00:42:36,450 --> 00:42:33,460
say about food I'd say the leg bones and

875
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:36,460
the shoulder blades are their enormous

876
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:39,850
far bigger than probably most modern

877
00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:41,890
elephants except for the largest African

878
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:45,550
Bulls the the for the forearms and the

879
00:42:50,310 --> 00:42:48,040
four legs are at the widest probably

880
00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:50,320
between six and eight inches wide their

881
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:53,350
narrowest there they're just massive

882
00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:55,570
yeah it's hard to describe the scale if

883
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:57,460
we walk around here we can actually

884
00:43:03,870 --> 00:43:00,240
stand under the tusks which are

885
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:03,880
tremendously long and curved right

886
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:06,790
around again it's hard to describe the

887
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:09,610
scale of this this animal it's almost

888
00:43:15,810 --> 00:43:13,570
like looking in a dinosaur museum and

889
00:43:19,590 --> 00:43:15,820
seeing a reasonably large dinosaur but

890
00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:19,600
this is a mammal now this is a working

891
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:22,680
scientific institution and where it do

892
00:43:29,790 --> 00:43:25,810
the big glass case here with the

893
00:43:33,590 --> 00:43:29,800
paleontology laboratory and through the

894
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:33,600
glass here we can see one two three

895
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:36,400
scientists hard at work sorting out

896
00:43:40,890 --> 00:43:38,410
miniature fossils and they are looking

897
00:43:42,990 --> 00:43:40,900
for tiny little bits of bone fragment

898
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:43,000
right in front of us and what they're

899
00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:45,180
looking at through the microscope is

900
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:47,860
also projected on a large screen so we

901
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:50,260
can easy exactly the tiny fragments

902
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:53,170
these scientists are trying to discover

903
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:54,810
and there's a row of magma of

904
00:44:01,200 --> 00:43:57,970
microscopes along here with various

905
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:01,210
displays and animals so it's a it's a

906
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:04,930
fascinating place it really is an

907
00:44:10,410 --> 00:44:07,270
interesting worthwhile place to come to

908
00:44:14,010 --> 00:44:10,420
as I walk around lots of displays and

909
00:44:16,310 --> 00:44:14,020
skulls and skeletons and we could see

910
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:16,320
here some of the history of the Tar Pits

911
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:18,430
dating back to the early part of last

912
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:21,130
century with photographs of excavations

913
00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:26,110
and lots of bones in another window here

914
00:44:31,950 --> 00:44:27,790
we can look right into a scientist hard

915
00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:31,960
at work cataloguing and she's got camel

916
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:36,580
bones camels camels yeah they're

917
00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:39,250
cataloguing camels and there's all these

918
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,230
bones laid out in front of us and the

919
00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:42,880
scientists behind the glass panel

920
00:44:47,339 --> 00:44:45,270
there's it's got a little

921
00:44:50,099 --> 00:44:47,349
photographic what does the knife no

922
00:44:52,349 --> 00:44:50,109
sudden i phone a savvy do camera sort of

923
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:52,359
device anyway and she's busily

924
00:44:59,400 --> 00:44:57,520
photographing endless camel bones well

925
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:59,410
camels used to be quite common in this

926
00:45:04,589 --> 00:45:01,119
part of California until the end of the

927
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,599
last ice age when the climate changed

928
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:06,400
and eventually it became inhabitable for

929
00:45:14,010 --> 00:45:10,960
them so they died what a pity that's

930
00:45:16,020 --> 00:45:14,020
just too bad I'm sorry to hear that but

931
00:45:27,930 --> 00:45:16,030
I didn't I didn't remember that that the

932
00:45:31,260 --> 00:45:27,940
Campbells used to be here well now the

933
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:31,270
display here with just the one bone from

934
00:45:37,230 --> 00:45:33,880
a condor but there are hundreds and

935
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:37,240
hundreds on display almost all identical

936
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:39,609
they vary in length only a couple of

937
00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:42,970
millimeters really and then Andrew

938
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:44,830
Dunning from better geology is counting

939
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:49,570
them all so it's 7 by 75 which is when

940
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:52,240
he gets out his calculator because I

941
00:46:00,060 --> 00:45:55,260
can't do these quick mathematics 525

942
00:46:02,279 --> 00:46:00,070
lower right leg bones from condors it's

943
00:46:05,459 --> 00:46:02,289
a Lubbock indoors it's a lot of condos

944
00:46:07,949 --> 00:46:05,469
well now here's a skeleton of a coyote

945
00:46:11,429 --> 00:46:07,959
looking up to a tree with a skeleton of

946
00:46:13,859 --> 00:46:11,439
a condor or two and there's a point here

947
00:46:16,969 --> 00:46:13,869
to be made about evolution I think yeah

948
00:46:20,759 --> 00:46:16,979
so the coyote skeleton here is probably

949
00:46:23,069 --> 00:46:20,769
about about a meter tall I'd say by

950
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:23,079
about a meter long minus the tail and

951
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:24,910
they're much bigger than that in this

952
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:27,910
part of the country today back when

953
00:46:32,669 --> 00:46:31,209
these were deposited as fossils and they

954
00:46:34,439 --> 00:46:32,679
got stuck in the tar and died they were

955
00:46:36,900 --> 00:46:34,449
a lot smaller because there was much

956
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:36,910
more competition from the wolves and the

957
00:46:41,339 --> 00:46:39,369
American lions and mountain lions and

958
00:46:43,529 --> 00:46:41,349
saber-toothed cats and a whole wealth of

959
00:46:45,299 --> 00:46:43,539
other predators and as those other

960
00:46:47,489 --> 00:46:45,309
predators slowly went extinct over

961
00:46:48,929 --> 00:46:47,499
thousands of years the coyotes were able

962
00:46:51,299 --> 00:46:48,939
to get bigger and now as we see them

963
00:46:54,749 --> 00:46:51,309
today they're three and a half to four

964
00:46:56,579 --> 00:46:54,759
feet tall now at the head maybe by about

965
00:46:58,049 --> 00:46:56,589
as long they're much bigger creatures

966
00:46:59,880 --> 00:46:58,059
today than they were though they're like

967
00:47:02,519 --> 00:46:59,890
the ones we see on the TV in the movies

968
00:47:05,309 --> 00:47:02,529
yeah a familiar yeah so we've come to

969
00:47:08,159 --> 00:47:05,319
another section I just around the corner

970
00:47:11,159 --> 00:47:08,169
here where it's a long wall of pictures

971
00:47:13,259 --> 00:47:11,169
and each panel represents 2,000 years of

972
00:47:15,179 --> 00:47:13,269
history and starting back thirty eight

973
00:47:17,549 --> 00:47:15,189
thousand years ago and it progresses and

974
00:47:22,019 --> 00:47:17,559
we can see the animals that came and

975
00:47:24,449 --> 00:47:22,029
went and when we reach the 22,000 year

976
00:47:27,179 --> 00:47:24,459
mark twenty two thousand years ago there

977
00:47:30,089 --> 00:47:27,189
are the camels the camels that they used

978
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:30,099
to roam this part of North America and

979
00:47:35,969 --> 00:47:33,849
we come along to the panel that says ten

980
00:47:39,950 --> 00:47:35,979
thousand years ago and there's a picture

981
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:43,650
in situations and the panel says the

982
00:47:50,220 --> 00:47:47,020
remains of only one human 25 to 30 years

983
00:47:52,050 --> 00:47:50,230
of age have been found in the pits the

984
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:52,060
structure of her skull indicates that

985
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:54,190
she was related to the channel island

986
00:47:59,790 --> 00:47:57,850
Indians this is the way labrea woman may

987
00:48:01,590 --> 00:47:59,800
have a beard with the picture so

988
00:48:03,660 --> 00:48:01,600
described so that's interesting the

989
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:03,670
whole history of this area and all the

990
00:48:08,430 --> 00:48:05,290
thousands upon thousands of bones are

991
00:48:10,410 --> 00:48:08,440
getting out only one human has been

992
00:48:12,510 --> 00:48:10,420
discovered it's pretty amazing uh they

993
00:48:15,090 --> 00:48:12,520
may have known that the Tar Pits were

994
00:48:17,310 --> 00:48:15,100
not a not a good place to go that you

995
00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:17,320
could get stuck in and it from my

996
00:48:21,090 --> 00:48:19,120
further reading it is determined that

997
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:21,100
she may have been interred in the Tar

998
00:48:24,810 --> 00:48:22,780
Pits ceremonially I was thinking that

999
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:24,820
could have been the case that instead of

1000
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:27,280
her wandering in and getting stuck that

1001
00:48:32,540 --> 00:48:28,960
humans might have been a bit too clever

1002
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:32,550
for that that they could have done that

1003
00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:35,350
there's a very good record of ceremonial

1004
00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:37,030
burials all over the American Southwest

1005
00:48:44,370 --> 00:48:39,790
dating back tens of thousands of years

1006
00:48:47,310 --> 00:48:44,380
the earliest that's one of them now I

1007
00:48:49,650 --> 00:48:47,320
think they've come back to life but the

1008
00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:49,660
the oldest human burial sites that i

1009
00:48:57,180 --> 00:48:51,790
know of date back about 8,000 years in

1010
00:48:58,590 --> 00:48:57,190
the death valley area there's so much

1011
00:49:00,660 --> 00:48:58,600
tar in this one is because that's where

1012
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:00,670
they bubble and that's where they put

1013
00:49:06,180 --> 00:49:04,210
all of the stuff that they dig out we're

1014
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:06,190
back out in the garden the grounds i

1015
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:07,690
should say again we're walking around to

1016
00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:10,180
an active excavation and we're walking

1017
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:12,790
through fenced off Tar Pits and I'm

1018
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:15,870
delighted to say when we're in there

1019
00:49:22,410 --> 00:49:19,330
there's tyronn fe we're stepping into

1020
00:49:26,730 --> 00:49:22,420
I'm not delighted to say that we

1021
00:49:29,550 --> 00:49:26,740
actually made a little better geology

1022
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:29,560
video which andrew will no doubt be

1023
00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:33,450
editing soon so you can marvel at that

1024
00:49:38,730 --> 00:49:36,190
hopefully before long now just walk down

1025
00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:38,740
these steps lots of little buildings

1026
00:49:44,850 --> 00:49:41,350
like temporary buildings here coming up

1027
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:44,860
to one that says pit 91 and on the

1028
00:49:49,140 --> 00:49:47,200
outside of the building that actually

1029
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:49,150
shows you the animals they've excavated

1030
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:51,530
from the pit and how many

1031
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:56,450
so we'll just walk inside and it's like

1032
00:50:00,160 --> 00:49:58,160
a little viewing platform and we look

1033
00:50:03,610 --> 00:50:00,170
down through the glass into one of the

1034
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:03,620
pits which is bubbling like crazy down

1035
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:07,730
there it's all sort of like you see in

1036
00:50:14,170 --> 00:50:09,520
the movies they've got the grid pattern

1037
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:14,180
but it's just a really dark pit which

1038
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:16,010
they have to go into to retrieve the

1039
00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:22,040
bones well the day here at the La Brea

1040
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:24,500
Tar Pits the page museum is coming to an

1041
00:50:31,810 --> 00:50:28,850
end Andrew we were just looking at the

1042
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:31,820
poor mamus they're stuck in the old some

1043
00:50:36,220 --> 00:50:33,890
more gas coming up this this segment

1044
00:50:38,410 --> 00:50:36,230
it's today it's like how much thought

1045
00:50:40,510 --> 00:50:38,420
there's someone underneath for the straw

1046
00:50:41,740 --> 00:50:40,520
going and every now and then they have

1047
00:50:44,020 --> 00:50:41,750
to come up for air but there's lots of

1048
00:50:46,330 --> 00:50:44,030
natural gas coming up yeah the bubbles

1049
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:46,340
are coming up all the time 24 hours a

1050
00:50:50,290 --> 00:50:48,890
day the thousands thousands of years as

1051
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:50,300
long as the Tar Pits have been here they

1052
00:50:54,550 --> 00:50:52,490
will always continue to bubble up

1053
00:50:56,530 --> 00:50:54,560
methane from underground it's amazing

1054
00:50:57,940 --> 00:50:56,540
place so once again our recommendation

1055
00:50:59,890 --> 00:50:57,950
from the skeptic zone to you dear

1056
00:51:02,200 --> 00:50:59,900
listener if you're in Los Angeles make

1057
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,210
sure you spare some time for the Brea

1058
00:51:06,299 --> 00:51:04,160
Tar Pits

1059
00:51:09,799 --> 00:51:06,309
[Music]

1060
00:51:13,650 --> 00:51:09,809
and now I find myself in a giant hangar

1061
00:51:17,999 --> 00:51:13,660
which displays the space shuttle

1062
00:51:23,579 --> 00:51:18,009
endeavour and it is a remarkable sight

1063
00:51:27,329 --> 00:51:23,589
its close-up it's not as clean and white

1064
00:51:30,059 --> 00:51:27,339
as you might imagine it's got obvious

1065
00:51:34,140 --> 00:51:30,069
signs of space wear and tear I guess you

1066
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,150
would say but it is just magnificent to

1067
00:51:38,999 --> 00:51:36,880
be in the same building as a space

1068
00:51:41,609 --> 00:51:39,009
shuttle and I can walk right around it

1069
00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:41,619
and underneath it and look up to the

1070
00:51:48,109 --> 00:51:45,849
huge thin at the back the tail and I'm

1071
00:51:52,259 --> 00:51:48,119
approaching the front of Endeavour now

1072
00:51:55,019 --> 00:51:52,269
retro rocket ports along the back here

1073
00:51:58,099 --> 00:51:55,029
at the front to Andrew Dunning it's a

1074
00:52:00,660 --> 00:51:58,109
spectacular sight yes it is and you

1075
00:52:02,370 --> 00:52:00,670
could spend hours in here just inspect

1076
00:52:04,739 --> 00:52:02,380
and you when you get up close you can

1077
00:52:07,319 --> 00:52:04,749
actually read the individual tiles which

1078
00:52:09,539 --> 00:52:07,329
is interesting and you'll notice that

1079
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,549
each individual tile has an individual

1080
00:52:14,459 --> 00:52:11,920
serial number yeah which was you need to

1081
00:52:16,979 --> 00:52:14,469
keep track of them very closely so if

1082
00:52:18,479 --> 00:52:16,989
any of them went wrong or had the

1083
00:52:21,029 --> 00:52:18,489
slightest defect they can be tracked

1084
00:52:22,949 --> 00:52:21,039
down they did ultrasonic testing of

1085
00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:22,959
every individual tile before it went up

1086
00:52:26,609 --> 00:52:24,670
to make sure they were all all in

1087
00:52:29,069 --> 00:52:26,619
working order because as we remember

1088
00:52:32,219 --> 00:52:29,079
from the Columbia one wrong tile can

1089
00:52:34,259 --> 00:52:32,229
make the whole thing so again yeah and I

1090
00:52:36,229 --> 00:52:34,269
what I find interesting is so if we walk

1091
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:36,239
up closer to the edge here to the side

1092
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:39,729
now we're on the the left front side of

1093
00:52:46,669 --> 00:52:43,529
the Space Shuttle under the cockpit and

1094
00:52:50,489 --> 00:52:46,679
we've got writing here for exam exhaust

1095
00:52:52,949 --> 00:52:50,499
but a purge poured over there and escape

1096
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,959
instructions or big arrows to where the

1097
00:52:58,289 --> 00:52:55,119
escape is and on the other side there is

1098
00:53:00,239 --> 00:52:58,299
equal it's like on racing cars you see

1099
00:53:02,429 --> 00:53:00,249
things on the outside say battery here

1100
00:53:05,099 --> 00:53:02,439
and all this sort of thing so the same

1101
00:53:08,789 --> 00:53:05,109
was on the space shuttle now I'm walking

1102
00:53:11,290 --> 00:53:08,799
right under the very nose right of the

1103
00:53:14,010 --> 00:53:11,300
front of the space shuttle

1104
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:14,020
where you can see the scoring and the

1105
00:53:21,070 --> 00:53:17,810
marking and again each tile is

1106
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:21,080
individually labeled I guess I'm about

1107
00:53:26,100 --> 00:53:23,690
five feet under the the tip of the nose

1108
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:26,110
walking around to the other side now and

1109
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:28,850
the views are magnificent looking down

1110
00:53:35,380 --> 00:53:30,170
the side of the space shuttle to the

1111
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:35,390
back wings or the wings now clear around

1112
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:40,640
the other side I can look up under the

1113
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:43,010
cockpit and cut here for emergency

1114
00:53:52,450 --> 00:53:49,250
rescue and so on and so forth and also

1115
00:53:56,290 --> 00:53:52,460
here are details of every shuttle

1116
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:56,300
mission and other displays so another

1117
00:54:00,850 --> 00:53:57,920
wonderful thing to do if you find

1118
00:54:03,490 --> 00:54:00,860
yourself in Los Angeles it's well worth

1119
00:54:08,370 --> 00:54:03,500
your time to see this or inspiring space

1120
00:54:23,839 --> 00:54:20,949
[Music]

1121
00:54:27,889 --> 00:54:23,849
amazing news for supporters of Maynard

1122
00:54:31,149 --> 00:54:27,899
calm today you and maynards podcasts you

1123
00:54:36,889 --> 00:54:31,159
are entitled yes you you are entitled to

1124
00:54:38,929 --> 00:54:36,899
download the 2017 Maynard calendar be

1125
00:54:41,749 --> 00:54:38,939
the first person on your block and your

1126
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:41,759
city perhaps even your country to own

1127
00:54:47,929 --> 00:54:44,640
the 2017 Maynard calendar yes spend

1128
00:54:51,319 --> 00:54:47,939
every month with me nerd for more

1129
00:54:54,019 --> 00:54:51,329
information visit www ma not calm day

1130
00:54:58,699 --> 00:54:54,029
you and send may not a message asking

1131
00:55:00,680 --> 00:54:58,709
about your 2017 Maynard downloadable

1132
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:00,690
printable calendar

1133
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:19,249
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1134
00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:21,410
zone and thank you to up-and-coming

1135
00:55:26,059 --> 00:55:23,849
geologist Andrew Dunning don't forget to

1136
00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:26,069
check out his YouTube videos at better

1137
00:55:34,969 --> 00:55:30,180
geology link on the show notes always

1138
00:55:37,489 --> 00:55:34,979
good to support promote encourage young

1139
00:55:40,910 --> 00:55:37,499
scientists coming up next week on the

1140
00:55:43,489 --> 00:55:40,920
show some more interviews from QED with

1141
00:55:46,249 --> 00:55:43,499
Iran sir give I thought I thought I'd

1142
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:46,259
used them all up but when I came back to

1143
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:48,930
Australia and I looked on my drive where

1144
00:55:53,329 --> 00:55:50,809
I keep some of the show files I

1145
00:55:55,819 --> 00:55:53,339
discovered some more interviews from QED

1146
00:55:58,099 --> 00:55:55,829
wonderful stuff again thank you to Iran

1147
00:56:00,249 --> 00:55:58,109
circuit for doing all that work over in

1148
00:56:03,890 --> 00:56:00,259
Manchester so next week some more

1149
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:03,900
interviews from QED now before I go

1150
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:05,729
every now and then on the skeptic zone I

1151
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:10,650
like to give a a recommendation of this

1152
00:56:17,749 --> 00:56:13,920
that or the other and today I'd like to

1153
00:56:20,420 --> 00:56:17,759
recommend an app an app called prompt

1154
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:20,430
smart now again there's no kick back to

1155
00:56:24,979 --> 00:56:22,890
me I get nothing out of this but I found

1156
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:24,989
it incredibly useful and maybe you will

1157
00:56:30,890 --> 00:56:28,170
too it's a like an autocue program which

1158
00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:30,900
listens to your voice and progresses the

1159
00:56:36,829 --> 00:56:34,380
text at the speed you speak it's really

1160
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:36,839
handy and I even used it in this week's

1161
00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:38,249
show when I was reading out that letter

1162
00:56:43,339 --> 00:56:40,529
from Danny chambers now I think it's

1163
00:56:46,489 --> 00:56:43,349
only available for iOS devices at the

1164
00:56:48,140 --> 00:56:46,499
moment but if you are a podcaster or you

1165
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:48,150
need to read scripts or something like

1166
00:56:53,089 --> 00:56:51,150
that then yes I could recommend prompts

1167
00:56:54,769 --> 00:56:53,099
part thank you once again to those

1168
00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:54,779
people who contribute to the skeptic

1169
00:57:00,440 --> 00:56:58,380
zone and pity on or just a direct via

1170
00:57:03,890 --> 00:57:00,450
paypal you can do that at skeptic zone

1171
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:03,900
dot TV without your support every week

1172
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:07,200
the show simply couldn't go ahead so I

1173
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:09,089
hope everybody enjoys the skeptic zone

1174
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:10,799
that those people who do contribute I

1175
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:14,130
hope you get that extra extra enjoyment

1176
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:17,910
but i think it's now time for me to to

1177
00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:19,529
have a little rest on the couch while I

1178
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:21,960
get over this last bit of jet lag thank

1179
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:23,849
you once again for listening and for

1180
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:25,650
this week this is Richard Saunders

1181
00:57:32,930 --> 00:57:26,850
signing off

1182
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:32,940
from Sydney Australia you've been

1183
00:57:38,090 --> 00:57:34,610
listening to the skeptics own podcast

1184
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:38,100
visit our website at wwc a petting zoo

1185
00:57:45,050 --> 00:57:41,160
TV for contacts and archive of all

1186
00:57:47,330 --> 00:57:45,060
episodes since 2008 and our online store

1187
00:57:50,050 --> 00:57:47,340
please support the skeptic zone by

1188
00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:50,060
following us on twitter at skeptic zone

1189
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:53,070
liking us on facebook and leaving a

1190
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:56,130
review on iTunes you can also show your

1191
00:58:02,450 --> 00:57:59,010
support by subscribing via PayPal or as

1192
00:58:04,820 --> 00:58:02,460
little as 99 cents a week the skeptic

1193
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:04,830
zone is an independent production the

1194
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:06,510
views and opinions expressed on the

1195
00:58:11,290 --> 00:58:08,610
skeptic zone and not necessarily those

1196
00:58:13,470 --> 00:58:11,300
of Australian skeptics or any other